Downsizing and Brand Declutter

Darryl:
You ever notice that nobody can agree on the perfect air conditioning temperature?

René:
Yeah, no kidding. That's true. I know. Meghan and I have the same dilemma all the time. We never argue about the heat in the winter. Never.

Darryl:
No, it's just the AC.

René:
And she's super hot blooded and she's like, man, it's cold in here. Just wait till you get to bed. You're going to appreciate the nice cold climate.

Darryl:
I feel like our house, we have a pretty good mix. Everyone likes the temperature, but, like, depending whose house you walk into, it's either that, like, breezy oasis or the seven surface circles of hell. Like, I walk into my mother's house in July and she goes, oh, don't worry, the AC's on. And I'm like, yeah, where? Because I can physically see the heat rising off the furniture. That's how hot it is.

René:
Yeah, you see the heat waves.

Darryl:
But then I go to my neighbor's house two doors down, and they open the door and you're, like, immediately slapped with, like, the arctic tundra. Like, it is so cold in there.

René:
The kids are skating in the kitchen.

Darryl:
And they're wearing sweaters.

René:
That's how I like it because I sleep like a baby after I just cuddle up under the duvet. I just sleep a log. I love it. What's your temp?

Darryl:
You know what? I like to think I'm in the middle. I'm like the Goldilocks of the thermostat. It's 24. It's all relative.

René:
24. Right. I like mine at 22.

Darryl:
I don't mind it. Cool. But, like, when my nipples will cut through my shirt. This is Taming the Hustle...

René:
... or Something of the Sorts.

René:
So cool. Darryl, how are you today?

Darryl:
Yeah, you know what? I am cool. I wear my sunglasses at night.

René:
Yeah. I wear my sweater like a good Frenchman would say. It's sweater wetter.

Darryl:
Oh, boy. Hey, what are we talking about today?

René:
We are talking about downsizing down. When to do it, why to do it, and how to do it. The ins and outs. Because this is really relevant to the aging population, especially our clients that have wealth. Right. And they're not necessarily downsizing because of, you know, financial restrictions. It's just a lifestyle choice. YRight. So I want to talk about four significant points.

René:
Is, are you doing it financially, are you doing it for your lifestyle, are you doing it for health reasons? And are you doing it for emotional purposes, or are you doing it for emotional reasons?

Darryl:
Or are you Matt Damon and you're just doing it for a movie?

René:
So the first one is financially is, you know, you would be doing it essentially to free up equity. If you're looking at, you know, a four or five bedroom home. So you got, you know, a relatively large home like yours, your kids are gone and you're ready to retire and you want to free up some capital. So you can either fill a gap in the shortfall of your retirement income, or if you're fully funded and you're like, you know what? I really want to travel more and I want the freedom of having a smaller home with less maintenance or possibly even a condo that I could just lock up and leave.

Darryl:
Exactly.

René:
And then you freed up some capital so that you can spend more money traveling and having the right home back in Canada so that you have less maintenance.

Darryl:
Exactly.

René:
Right. Because, you know, if you have a smaller home, you could free up some equity in the home if you sell your home at a certain price and you buy a less expensive one. But you also have probably less property taxes and lower maintenance costs. So it could significantly increase your lifestyle or your cash flow in retirement.

Darryl:
Increase your cash flow. And like, when you eliminate some of those things like maintenance and even just the cost of property taxes and stuff like that, mentally, that's a huge win.

René:
Yeah. And you know what if it's a condo, you know, like, I can kind of envision myself. I don't know what the future holds for me, but I can envision myself living in a condo in Kelowna where I could lock it up for the winter and just choose every year where I'm going to go. This year I'm going to spend it in Mexico. Next year I'm going to go to Spain or Portugal or whatever. Right?

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
So then you can just set it and forget it. You lock the doors, your car is an indoor garage. You don't have to worry, worry about it. You just turn your water off and you have your heat and you turn your AC off, by the way.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
So for financial reasons, it could be very rewarding. But this is a good segue of what we're talking about with the condo is the lifestyle pieces. If you do want to travel, like, that's really top priority for me in retirement and even as I age and I free up some of my time at work with, you know, our past discussion on the last episode of, you know, our ability to buy time. Right. Is travel. How Important is travel to you. And that could be a really driving force or an incentive for you to downsize.

Darryl:
Yeah, for sure.

René:
The other thing is flexibility. Right. Whether it's you decide to move into a townhouse, a condo or maybe just a smaller home, is it could give you the flexibility of not having that half an acre of lawn to mow or that really fancy garden that you've always enjoyed and were the pride of the neighborhood because you had this garden you've always had people wowed by. But the problem is, is that takes time and effort. And if your plan in retirement is not to be a hobby gardener. Yeah, you may want to dump that.

Darryl:
Yeah, no kidding.

René:
And the other thing is simplicity. Like it's not always for financial reasons. Like let's say you have that four bedroom home and you've got that big chunk of property and you have the swimming pool to take care of and whatever. Right. Like all of the shit that comes with that. You may not be spending less. Like you may sell your home for 1.2 million, but you may buy a 1.3 or $1.4 million condo.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
But it's the simplicity that you're looking for of not having the maintenance, not worrying about budgeting, of replacing your roof. You have your strata or your condo fees and you have a simple life. Right. And some people are really looking for that. So as you know, we've got this eyesore of a building next to our building in Kirkland Lake, which is the old bus station. If I won the lottery, I would buy that and I would turn that into condos and I could sell those condos to just my clients alone, who are like widows, who don't want to care for lawns, who just want to lock the doors safely and travel. If they want to winter away, they want to go for two months, three months, whatever.

René:
The simplicity of that lifestyle. Lifestyle is very appealing to our aging clients.

Darryl:
I'm not. Well, I'm aging, but I'm already in sign me up.

René:
Friggin right you're aging, but it may not be for financial reasons at all. You may actually spend more on the condo.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
Or a smaller house where you want something newer, more modern. Because in retirement you're going to spend more time at home, but you want less maintenance. Like we talked about this hiring a maid, hiring someone to clean your house. The idea of me cleaning a three or four bedroom home is the biggest turnoff ever. I rather have a one or two bedroom that's very small. Like you know that I'm a minimalist by nature. Right?

Darryl:
Yes.

René:
So lifestyle, you know, for me, would be a really important factor in the decision on downsizing. So the third piece is for health reasons. If you have a two story bungalow that typically has a full basement. So now you have three sets of stairs. So if you have mobility issues, that might be a concern. A lot of people are getting rid of those homes and just having like a single story on a concrete slab. No basement, no anything.

Darryl:
Yeah, yeah.

René:
Right. So in the event that you're even in a wheelchair or a walker, you just. You're ground level. You have absolutely no stairs.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
So that could actually improve your quality of life in retirement, because now you're avoiding isolation. It's easier to get in, it's easier to get out. You have the ability to kind of leave the house. I've done house calls where people, Dude. Were living on only the main floor and had brought their beds into the living room because they couldn't make their way upstairs anymore. So they essentially just blocked off their upstairs and was living on the main floor and making do with what they had. Right. So if you could recognize that this is going to happen to you, this is really a good option, is to entertain downsizing for health reasons, just to make sure that you can ensure the best quality of life possible as you age.

René:
I mean, we all know that our time is limited. We have a finite amount of time here. Let's make the best of it.

Darryl:
I have three floors in my home, and Erin won't let us buy a bungalow because she says, at least I'm getting the exercise of going up and down those stairs.

René:
Well, I read a study that people that are aging in homes with stairs typically have better health for longer. Because you're forced to use those stairs.

Darryl:
Damn right.

René:
Yeah. You're kind of like on a StairMaster without choice.

Darryl:
I know when you're down in the lowest level and you forget something on the top level, it's a jaunt. It's a little bit of a trek. You know, I feel like I'm going on an adventure sometimes.

René:
Yeah. And if you're screaming at your wife going down the stairs with a mouthful of cheese, you might die. Yeah.

Darryl:
You might choke on the way into a podcast. I'm not saying I did that this podcast, but yeah, I might be a little raspy in the voice today.

René:
But that is why I was sitting in the recording room for an extra 10 minutes saying, where the fuck is this guy.

Darryl:
Waiting for me while I was dying just outside. See, if I didn't have stairs. That might not have been a problem.

René:
Oh my God. I'm glad you didn't die.

Darryl:
Yeah. Me too. Especially dying from cheese. I don't need that on my tombstone. 'Darryl died from cheese.'

René:
The other reason that we would downsize is for emotional reasons. Right. So if you're coping with a loss, I've also seen this a number of times is that you have a spouse that's ill with cancer for example and really, you know, is adamant about living their last days in the home. And then all of a sudden you've got this terrible memory of, you know, your spouse that's not. Well, I've seen it as far as where they brought hospital beds in the living room and, and they passed away in the living room. Right. It's like, it's a bit morbid. Once the spouse is gone.

René:
You just keep having that vision and it's the memory of the sufferance and all of that. Like it's so sad. Often you just can't cope with that loss and you just end up selling the home for emotional reasons because, I mean, I hate to say a fresh start but you need to, to change your thoughts. So you know, as a coping mechanism. Right.

Darryl:
100% I have friends who have lost children and for that very reason they sold their house and said we need a fresh start. Because no matter where they turn or look in the house, they're just constantly reminded of it. And yes, those memories are good most of the time but at the same time it brings back the memory of, you know, the sadness.

René:
100% empty nesting is another one too. Right. You raised your family. You've got two or three kids. You know, the last one finally leaves the house and now you've got this four bedroom and it's like, wow, I feel really lost in this place. Some people get very depressed with that. Right? It depends on your relationship with your children and what you have for your own hobbies and your own lifestyle. Right.

René:
Often they'll want to downsize again as a fresh start to say, okay, this is a new beginning for me. My kids are grown up. They're on their own. They're responsible. We're going to move into a small two bedroom home and this is going to be a fresh start for us with the next chapter of our life. It's not forgetting your kids. It's a way to cope instead of walking past your, your kid's room every time and just feeling, oh man, I really miss them having around because, you know, you can't live in the past. Today's the first day of the rest of your life.

René:
So we have to brace ourselves and make the best of it and look forward to, you know, what's to come.

Darryl:
Exactly.

René:
Also, from a financial standpoint, there's a rising concern of having a couple where one may have to be institutionalized into a nursing home and the other one is still well enough to stay at home. And there's concerns of not being able to afford both.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
Which is a legit concern. Right. Nursing home's going to cost you $3,500 a month. And we budgeted for a regular income of $8,000 a month. How are you going to make up the difference if you're just. Just make it with your plan. So downsizing may be an opportunity for you to free up some capital to be able to pay for your spouse's nursing home costs and maybe your eventual own cost. Right.

Darryl:
Yeah. Wait, did Erin call you and ask you about this? And like me in a padded room someday. Just checking.

René:
It's in the works. You're on the waiting list.

Darryl:
That's it. Oh, I figured.

René:
So now that we've talked about the four whys of, of, you know, entertaining the downsizing is, we now have to talk about timing. Like timing is everything.

Darryl:
Yeah, no kidding.

René:
I much rather see a client be proactive in doing this than being reactive. Right. You'd hate to sell your house in a hurry and get fire sale price to move into a smaller home because you just found out your spouse is going into a nursing home.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
Usually the nursing home is like, well, we know what it's like in Canada. It's two to four year wait list, sometimes longer.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
So if you know that there's a potential risk that your spouse is going into a nursing home because of, you know, physical limitations or dementia or whatever, and your finances are limited, you may want to be proactive and move in advance. Right. I know it's a bit complicated, but sometimes it's the right thing to do rather than be reactive about it. Same as health issues. Sometimes you're hit by a bus. Right. So then your health changes in an instant. If your health is slowly deteriorating, it's much better to be proactive, to anticipate needing to live on that single story home than to wait until it's last minute and two late.

René:
And then you have to figure out a way how to pack all this because you're disabled. You know, being reactive. We talk about planning all the time. That's what we do for a living. It's much better to be, you know, proactive and plan in advance than to be reactive.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
The other when question, dude, is what everyone talks about is market conditions. Is it the right time to sell? Am I going to lose my shirt?

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
And if it's in the same area, it's simple because it's all relative. If markets are high, you're going to sell your expensive, bigger home higher, but you're going to pay more for your smaller home.

Darryl:
Exactly.

René:
But if you're selling at a low in a depressed area and all of a sudden you want to move to a more vibrant area, which is a more of a retirement community, or you want to move, say, Collingwood in Ontario, because there's a lot of happening and you like to ski and you like to do a lot of outdoor stuff. You may be paying premium dollars for your smaller home.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
So market conditions of where you're selling and where you're buying is very relevant, and you want to be mindful of that so that you're not, you know, suffering too much of a financial loss by making this decision. So going back to the proactive and reactive, it's much better to be proactive and plan for it and try to sell at the right time in terms of market conditions so that you can get premium dollar for this transaction.

Darryl:
We've looked at stuff, you know, just tiptoeing into being proactive at our age, but we've thought about it. It's like, if we do sell this house and the kids are gone and, you know, they could be in different parts of the country, where do we want to have our roots? Do we want to be where we are now? And we said, maybe not. Right. And then we started looking at places where we would want to go, and house prices are about, you know, 10 to 15% higher.

René:
Right.

Darryl:
Than our market. And it's like, oh, boy. Okay, so if we sell our house and we downsize..

René:
It may be just a lateral shift as opposed to.

Darryl:
Yeah, exactly.

René:
Banking some coin.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
The other thing, too, we talked about, you know, packing and all of that stuff is, you know, when to do it is probably when you're still healthy. Because if you wait until you have some physical constraints, for example, like moving is a big job, especially, you know, if you spent most of your adult life in your home and you've been there for 30, 40 years, you accumulated a lot of shit.

Darryl:
Yeah, tons of shit.

René:
Like, it doesn't take long. You. You pack up that basement and you keep stuff just in case, and you don't get rid of it because you feel you may use it one day, but you never do. We're all victims of that.

Darryl:
Yeah, right.

René:
So tackling that while you still have the energy to be able to tackle those difficult tasks are really important. Lastly, our family dynamics. Right. When to do it. Like, I've seen circumstances where a couple had sold their home and uprooted their entire life, where they spent a lifetime of friendships and, you know, community spirit and their involvement in the place where they live to move closer to their kids, only to find out that two years later, their kids move halfway across the country. What the fuck do you do then? Like, I've seen that trying to follow your kids is suicide.

Darryl:
No kidding.

René:
Right? So are you making those decisions based on family dynamics? Like, are you downsizing because you want to move closer to your kid who's recently divorced, who you think needs help with the grandkids?

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
You know, is that something that's really a valid reason? And if it is, are you making the right, the right move at the right time?

Darryl:
Yeah, no kidding.

René:
You know, I. I recently have a client of ours that just moved away from the city into the rural area where their aging parents are just to be closer to their parents. So timing is everything, right, in terms of family dynamics.

Darryl:
And with that one, like, their parents are aging and they're not going to be around forever. So you're moving to spend some time, but then you're probably. Unless you really fall in love with that area that you're in, you're probably going to want to uproot again.

René:
Again, I'm glad you mentioned that, because then that brings up the question is, well, I'm downsizing, but do I repurchase? Because maybe I just rent. Right? Because if we think this is going to be a three to five year plan and then I want to reassess where I am in retirement because I'm just like 58 years old or 60 years old. You may just want to rent and say, you know what? I'm going to move closer to my parents. I'm going to bank that 1.2 million I just made on my house and I'm going to rent for three to five years or whatever amount of time I need and until I know mom and dad are well cared for as they age, and then kind of do a reassessment and decide where I want to live going forward. You know, although you're renting and we've had this conversation about rent versus buying.

Darryl:
Exactly.

René:
You're renting, but you're saving yourself all of the maintenance costs, you're saving yourself all of the legal costs of purchasing and then you're saving yourself the selling costs with Realtors and, and legal. So you may end up further ahead. And again, flexibility and simplicity for me is really, really important.

Darryl:
Yeah. Just the headaches alone.

René:
Yeah, absolutely. And then the how. So we've talked about the why and the when. Now, how do you do this? Well, again, 'Right Sizing' versus 'Downsizing'. Right. Are you buying something that's more suitable or are you physically looking for something smaller? And you have to find what region you want to be living in. So that's usually the starting point, is making sure that you know you're doing it for the right reasons, you're doing it at the right time, and that you're ready to execute it and that you've reevaluated your financial plan, you've talked to your financial planner and you come up with a game plan in advance.

René:
It's a lot easier to plan and prepare and make a decision with confidence than to just be reactive and then regret doing it.

Darryl:
Yeah, yeah.

René:
And then also you want to make sure that from a tax perspective and from an income perspective that it's, you know, it's not going to be detriment. For people that qualify, of course, for their principal exemption, it's usually a non issue. But you want to make sure that, you know, you've asked the right questions and you covered all angle just to make sure that there's not going to be any issues even, you know, for, you know, not necessarily for our clients because typically the people we work with have money, but for low income people is. Okay, well, is making this move going to impact my old age security and my guaranteed income supplement or my ODSP or whatever. Right.

Darryl:
One thing I do want to bring up because you did mention that the people you work with and you had mentioned, you know, talk to your Certified Financial Planner about this. I keep seeing these videos on Instagram and TikTok and kind of all over. And I got to bring up the elephant in the room on this one. And this is not me joking around. This is me being truthful and really caring about our audience here. Is I see this all the time where it's like, do you have financial questions? Use this prompt in ChatGPT to fix your finances or to make a decision on your future. Please, for the love of God, do not do that. I'm also seeing videos of people who saying they, you know, use ChatGPT to figure out investments Figure out the retirement plan, stuff like this, like downsizing, should I sell my house now?

Darryl:
And ChatGPT kind of gives you the answers that you want. Your prompts are telling ChatGPT what you want. And the whole point of ChatGPT is to give you the goods that you want. So if you say, I want to reduce my debt, I want to downsize, I want to do this, I want to do that, it's going to give you the answer that might not be the right answer, but it's going to be an answer that you're going to like and it's going to sound good to you and it's going to sound real. Please don't buy into that. Talk to somebody who actually is a human being who knows their shit. Sorry, I didn't mean to steal your topic. But especially on downsizing like this.

Darryl:
That is such a huge. I couldn't imagine my parents listening to ChatGPT to figure out how to downsize and end up losing money or end up with more headaches than they need. So sorry.

René:
I love AI and we use it in many aspects of our business. But you have to be mindful of the algorithm and how that works. And you're right. It's going to give you the answer that you're looking for. It may not be the devil's advocate in certain cases. And there's no emotional factor to it either.

Darryl:
No.

René:
Right. So there are things to consider that only a human being can really help you brainstorm because you can't effectively brainstorm with AI because it's going to constantly be looking for the answers you're looking for.

Darryl:
Exactly.

René:
So having a chat with a human being is always going to be beneficial. 100%. Although AI has its place, it's not to be all end all, that is for sure. And as a starting point.

René:
Ahh... I'm not going to challenge you though. That would be too much of a precedent to do that.

Darryl:
I am sitting down.

Darryl:
You said it last episode "I'm gonna challenge you." I almost fell off my chair, but right now I knew we were getting close to the end. I'm holding on just in case you have one.

René:
Very much like our practice run on retirement income, if you have a shortfall is that. You know, the practice tips for me would be start decluttering now, if you're even entertaining it. So again that you're not being reactive and more proactive that when you do decide to pull the trigger. That, A) You've already started to declutter. So if you're going to sell your home, it's going to be a lot easier to stage it. Right. It's going to be a hell of a lot less stressful to get that going and get the ball rolling on the selling process. But then again, on the moving process. I'm not sentimental at all with stuff.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
But some people will go through every single family photo they've ever collected and cry to every birthday card they've kept for their entire life and want to go through them all before they decide to get rid of them or pack them up into a smaller box or put them into storage. So I would just pull a dumpster up and just get rid of everything. But some people would take them weeks or months to kind of go through all of the lifetime of shit that they've accumulated. Right. So that would be a great practical tip for you to just get going on things if you're entertaining this so that, you know, if you see an opportunity in terms of market timing that you can pull the trigger or if your health is deteriorating or if there's a family dynamic that's causing you to do this. You know, you have an aging parent. Another thing is an aging parent. Right.

René:
Maybe you need a nanny suite and you want to buy a house that's going to be more suitable to care for that aging parent. So being proactive and being ready to move is going to make things a lot easier for you.

Darryl:
Yeah, for sure.

René:
And that's it for me, man. I think I've rambled enough.

Darryl:
No, I love it.

René:
Maybe a little bit of a dry topic, but I think it's very relevant as we see our clients aging. You know, we've got, we've got a baby boomer generation that is aging and looking at downsizing for a multitude of reasons. And I think it was important that we touched on this.

Darryl:
Well, you inspired me. I was going to do a 30 second ad, but I'm downsizing. So here's our 15 second ad. We'll be right back.

René:
And we're back.

Darryl:
Whoa. So 15 seconds goes by real fast.

René:
Yeah. You're not used to downsizing yet. It does take some adjustment.

Darryl:
Hey, listen.

René:
I'm listening.

Darryl:
I know you're listening. Today I want to talk about something that's quietly suffocating your brand. It's not your ads or your algorithm like most people think. It's that your brand is trying to do too much and say everything to everyone. And kind of what you said a minute ago about accumulating too much stuff over your life, your business does the same thing. There's too much stuff, too little story, and your brand is cluttered.

René:
No clutter. I hate clutter.

Darryl:
I know you do. But here's the thing. You've got taglines, offers, bios, features, freebies, mission statements, submission statements, and five different fonts fighting for attention. And if your website looks like a garage sale, this is a problem. And I see this time and time again. Your Instagram bio is one adjective away from a nervous breakdown. And your brand's message is buried under 400 pounds of clutter. So today, I want us to break down brand overload and how it happens, why it kills connections, and what to do when your message reads like a Wikipedia article.

René:
Ah, simplicity. Please do share.

Darryl:
So let's start with the classic mistake, the more is more mindset. People have this so often, I don't know why. We've heard it time and time again. Less is more. Throughout our whole lives, people have said this, less is more. Then you have a business and you decide you need to do some marketing. And all of a sudden, in your head, you forgot about that lesson about less is more.

Darryl:
And you're like, more is more. I need more. I need more. And somewhere along the way, you convince yourself that more options means more value, more offers, more words, more features, more tabs, more hashtags. That's more confusion. You're out here thinking you're building a brand empire, when really you're just building, like, a digital flea market. Let me say this clearly, because this is how we say it to clients all the time. You're not Costco.

Darryl:
You do not need 47 products. You don't need nine slogans or three logos or a rotisserie chicken section. Stop offering everything. And I've talked about this in the past about you're an expert at what you do and sell that first. Especially when you're starting out and people just keep adding products or services and they build their website. And I know people who have their websites where they started off as one service, maybe it's accounting, and then all of a sudden, they're offering 20 other services that's not related to accounting. But they keep adding it to their website. So when you go to their website and we talked about this last episode, I think, where you said you went to a website for capris and there was so much clutter and they were offering you 40% off.

Darryl:
And you click close to that, and it's like, sign up for our newsletter. You click close to that, it's like, win this close. That you get so tired. You're like, I just want to hear the message.

René:
I just want to bike Capris, for Christ's sakes.

Darryl:
Exactly.

René:
It's true. Too much is too much.

Darryl:
Oh, no kidding. You need a clear message, a single direction. And I've talked about this before, a story your audience can actually follow. Because story is what sells. I don't care what you think in the sense of you're like, oh, my product looks flashy. Tell me a story about your product. Tell me a story about your service. People care about the people behind those products and services.

Darryl:
They want to know the story. This is why anytime we work with clients, we always say, if we can do some behind the scenes stuff, we would love to. Because people love when you pull the curtain back, it tells a story. It tells what this actually means. It shows that your product is a good product. We talked a few episodes ago about buying Canadian. And here's the thing. When you pull that curtain back and you're showing that the ketchup is actually made here in Canada by Canadians, guess what? People really want to buy that.

Darryl:
I said it before. Clutter kills connection. Because when your brand is cluttered, your audience doesn't know what to pay attention to. Right?

René:
So what you're telling me is I was right in an episode where I said if you were to write a book about yourself, it would be a short story with lots of photos instead of a complicated novel.

Darryl:
Less is more.

René:
Declutter. Less is more. My name is Darryl. Here's a photo of me.

Darryl:
The end.

René:
Yeah, there you go.

Darryl:
Three pages long. That's the thing. When there's so much stuff, people don't pay attention to it, right? They pay attention to nothing. They don't click, they don't buy, they don't remember you. And that's the most important part. So that website where you were trying to buy Capris, you told me the story about that website and being cluttered. You did not tell me the name brand. You told me about the product you were trying to buy.

Darryl:
You told me that their website was so cluttered with a mess and that you left. That's all you remembered about that.

René:
They're dead to me.

Darryl:
They are dead to you. And with so much clutter when someone does think of them, it's all for the wrong reasons. Because like I said, if I asked you about that brand, now you're going to tell me the same story. Oh, I can't stand that website.

René:
If I go to any place of business, even like a physical, the marketing doesn't just apply online. It's like your marketing is also your place of business. If I walk into a tire shop and you got to walk through like a little line... because you've got tires and rims everywhere and shit's dirty and of course you can't clean amongst that mess. It's chaotic. I'm like, no thanks.

Darryl:
Yeah, I'm the same.

René:
Or even you go to a professional office and they have pamphlets like literally everywhere. And it's just like my head is spinning. I'm like, I gotta get out of here.

Darryl:
It's 1982 and there's about 3,000 trifolds everywhere.

René:
Yeah, exactly. They're on the wall. There's like standalone stands on the floor. They're on the table, they're on the coffee table, they're on your front desk. Ay yai ya mamma mia.

Darryl:
They're nicely fanned out.

René:
Oh Jesus. They're discolored because they've been there so long. What a turn off.

Darryl:
So how do you declutter a brand? Here's what I want you to do. First, ruthlessly review your offerings. If it doesn't sell, serve or scale, cut it. That product or service you added just in case, Gone. Get rid of it. That random service tier you built for one client three years ago, don't advertise that. Again, It's more clutter. Are you going to offer that if someone needs it? Yeah, you're going to make it customized for them right on the spot.

Darryl:
They don't need to know what's behind the curtain on that aspect. You're not simplifying for fun, you're simplifying for focus. The next thing is to ask this one question about your messaging. And I think I've talked about this in the last episode a few before and probably all three seasons we've done. Can someone explain your brand in one sentence? If not, your message is too heavy. Trim it down. If your brother or your sister or your mother can't explain clearly in one sentence what your business is about, it's too much. If you're a baker, say that.

Darryl:
Not you're a culinary experience curator of artisanal joy. Sell the cookie, not the fucking poem.

René:
Absolutely, man. I remember again when we first started working together.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
You would walk into our entrance office and the backdrop to the reception desk was a list of everything we did.

Darryl:
Yes. I hated it.

René:
It was like financial planning, employee benefits, registered pension plans, RESPs, RDSPs, mutual funds, GICs, banking products. It was like totally itemized one by one on the wall. It was like, what a clusterfuck is so busy. As soon as we created a brand and we had the right logo and just simplified the logo on the back. You can feel more relaxed the moment that you walked into the office.

Darryl:
Exactly.

René:
So it set the mood for the conversation. It said the mood for the purpose of our meeting. And the brand was defined by the marketing. Right?

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
The writing is not always meant to be on the wall, by the way.

Darryl:
Yeah. You guys aren't McDonald's. I don't need to see your menu.

René:
Exactly.

Darryl:
This one has been up for debate time and time again. But I'm a believer in selecting a primary channel, especially early on, especially if you're a do it yourselfer. You don't need to be on TikTok, Threads, Pinterest, Substack, link in. Pick one where your people actually are. And if you show up there and show up well, because it's so easy to burn out trying to be perfect on every single platform, it's hard to do. It's hard to keep up. The way these algorithms work is they kind of force you to post and post and post and post every day, 10 times a day sometimes. And if you're trying to do that on every other platform, when do you actually have time to run your business? You probably don't.

René:
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It is tough.

Darryl:
It's ridiculous. It's hard to compete. And that's the thing. Don't just spread yourself thin and just you're going to stay on social media. There are other avenues of marketing you should be hitting that are offline. And you're not going to have time to do those offline marketing things when you're too busy trying to be on four different platforms and posting three times a day and two stories. And it's kind of crazy to me.

René:
Is it fair to say that it's also true when it comes to your, you know, as an example, your involvement in your community. Right. If you become overly involved and you're involved in like everything and you spread yourself thin, you know, negatively affect your business because you become too busy, but also you're not really, you know, giving it your all. If you're going to be involved, say, in politics, or you're going to be involved at the hospital foundation or with a service club or, you know, a cause of your own. Right?

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
If you spread yourself thin trying to do it all, you then become someone who's not completely, you know, committed to the cause because you've spread yourself too thin. And it may take away from the focus of you running your business properly.

Darryl:
100%. Like with you, you're on the hospital foundation. Let's pretend for a moment you gave 90% of your time to that and you only focus 10% on financial planning. When the markets sink, guess what happens? There's going to be some client who says to you, maybe if you weren't so busy with the hospital foundation and running my financial plan.

René:
Or that one time that person said, well, if you weren't so busy, busy spending all your time at the radio station doing radio ads.

Darryl:
That actually happened. That was so funny, I forgot about that one. That's exactly what I mean.

René:
Oh my God.

Darryl:
All right. The last thing you can do is edit your brand like you're cleaning out a closet. We talked about this in your segment about getting rid of stuff when you're downsizing. Pull everything out and look at it and ask yourself, do I wear the this? If not, donate it. And on brand terms, delete it, archive it, retire it. Your message should feel like your favorite outfit. It should feel clean. It should feel comfortable and easy to wear and easy to grab and put on.

Darryl:
Your audience doesn't want more. They want clarity.

René:
Even on my personal page, like, let's say, Facebook, from time to time I will scroll down and the stuff that people shared on my page or if it was a specific event that's come and gone or we were promoting something that we were involved in, I'll often just delete the stuff that is longer relevant. So if we have, you know, a potential client, that's kind of creeping me as an individual.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
They have the ability to go through, you know, the history of my post and understand more clearly who I am and what I'm about and what my interests are, rather than being cluttered with all the kind of the one offs and stuff.

Darryl:
Exactly.

René:
Bet you didn't know I did that. A you proud of me? Are you proud of me?

Darryl:
You know what? I did know you did that. I did. I did. Something like that does drive me crazy. And it happened to me recently on Instagram. There was a real estate agent that I follow and she had did this video that was just so good. But I wanted to actually share it with you.

Darryl:
And when I went through her stuff, I was scrolling and scrolling and scrolling. It's like, oh, the markets this week, the markets that week. I'm still scrolling into, like, they're three years ago. And it's stuff that's not relevant anymore, but that video was still relevant. And I'm like, I can't find it because I'm going through shit. So I gave up. I was like, ah, screw it.

René:
Less is more. More.

Darryl:
Yes, less is more. And when you stop trying to say everything, people finally hear something, something that sticks, something they remember, something they trust. All right, you ready, René?

René:
Less is more.

Darryl:
Here's your challenge. Pick one part of your brand. Maybe it's your Instagram bio, maybe it's your homepage, your email footer, whatever. Declutter it like your Marie Condo on Netflix. If it doesn't spark clarity, it's out.

Darryl:
Because let's be honest, your business deserves space to breathe. And your audience, they deserve a brand they can actually understand.

René:
Very well said, sir.

Darryl:
All right, we'll be right back.

René:
Okay, here's the surprise.

Darryl:
I didn't tell you about our lifestyle topic today.

René:
No, you did not. Thanks for that.

Darryl:
It's something I think might feel a little uncomfortable.

René:
Why people wear tight underwear.

Darryl:
That is uncomfortable, but that's not it.

René:
Commando is the way to go.

Darryl:
It's who you are if no one's watching. And by that, I mean our society has triggered this always on mentality. People like especially high achievers or business owners or caretakers or perfectionists, wrap their entire identity around what they do do. Either you've given yourself a title or someone has given you that title, and that seems to be your identity. You've been rewarded for it. You validated for it, depended on because of it. But for a lot of people, they eventually burn out, or they retire or get sick or lose their job or just wake up one day feeling, like, empty and hollow. When that happens, and we hear it all the time, that people are lost.

Darryl:
You take that retiree who says, I was a financial planner or I was an accountant, or I was a plumber, and that's what people know me for, because I was there for them. And suddenly, whether it's they retire, they get sick, or they're burnt out. They don't know who they are without that role they played for so long.

René:
Yeah, I could see that.

Darryl:
But today, let's not wait until we collapse to figure out who we are. Let's ask that hard question now because I think it's important not to make you feel lost, but to help you start coming home to yourself. The whole proactive instead of reactive. So what's there when the emails stop, Rene? The calendar clears and you're just a human being sitting on the couch for a moment? You're no longer a financial planner. And we've joked about this before, that we'll never retire from what we do. But who would you be if you didn't have to do this anymore? Like what would people. Because I know you know for yourself. You've said this before.

Darryl:
You're like, you know, people know I give a lot back to the community or people know that our live well today while planning to live well tomorrow. And your holistic approach to financial planning is changing people's lives. So when you decide to retire someday, who are you?

René:
I'm a nobody.

Darryl:
I know. I'm sorry to put you on the spot. This is why I didn't want to tell you about it.

René:
I'm a loser. You know, a big part of what I like about traveling is my ability to kind of redefine myself and explore who I am as a person. Yeah, right. Is kind of nurturing my curiosity of different cultures and getting to know different people and just genuinely being interested in other people in the way that they live.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
Right. So I don't have a clear identity, to be honest with you. You did put me on the spot and I don't because I've really built my entire life around helping people.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
But you know what? I'm very family oriented.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
I love my family dearly, whether it's generations above or below or laterally. And I would define myself as a family man who really loves physical fitness. Like I think that if I had more time I would step up my physical activities to a certain degree. I would love to be cycling more. I would probably take on a biathlon or triathlon challenge. So who am I as a person? I'm. I'm someone who loves to cook and someone who really enjoys physical activity and travel. But you know, other than that, I'm #callrene.

Darryl:
And that's the thing. I think what you said about travel is what I think about you outside of the box of financial planner. And helping people is that when you do travel, travel, you're not going out. And you're telling people when you meet them in Mexico or Cuba or, you know, wherever you are, Italy, I don't care. You're going out and you're saying, oh my God, this food that you just made is so amazing. And you end up sometimes at people's homes when you're traveling.

René:
Yeah.

Darryl:
And they're making meals for you, and you guys are breaking bread and drinking wine. And it's not about you being a financial planner, it's about you caring about people and just showing your human quality. And I think without really knowing it, I think that's kind of who you are without that title that you have.

René:
A hundred percent human connections is such a fuel for me, it's so nourishing. And, you know, I've developed really great relationships even after getting to know people after, you know, a few days or a few weeks. Like, it's pretty amazing to have, you know, the privilege to be able to have, in my opinion, the skill set or the personality to be able to do that. You know, for me to reach out and get to know someone. I connect with people everywhere I go. You know, some people look at me like I've got two heads for doing so, but I just do it out of the goodness of my heart because I'm. I'm genuinely interested in people. Right?

Darryl:
Yeah, exactly. I think it's an important topic to kind of bring up. Like, we're not going to answer the question for everyone here today, but this is more just to get the wheel spinning, because kind of like you said about being proactive about downsizing and kind of getting ready for that huge transition, this is no different. It's like you need to be ready for. For whether it's the burnout or retirement or an injury where you can't work anymore, because like I said, our society has put us into these jobs. Like, you say that I'm the marketing guru, and as much as that's not on my business card, that came with part of my identity, right?

René:
Absolutely.

Darryl:
And when I'm working in film, it's like, oh, you're a screenwriter. And that's part of my identity. But then when I think about it, if I take those things away, who am I really? Right. Without thinking about those things, when those times come, you can really feel lost. If you have haven't found yourself before, then.

René:
Yeah. And I'm so passionate about what I do that every time I introduce myself, I tell people what I do. You know, it's not a sales pitch for me. It's pride, you know, for the most part, yes. Because I'm really good at what I do, and I'm very passionate about it. It always ends up being part of the conversation as to, you know, when I introduce myself, I end up telling them what I do.

Darryl:
Yeah. It's crazy because I know people who have traveled and I've talked about living in Norway before, wanting to move there, almost moving there. And it's funny how their society functions.

Darryl:
Because it's not about titles. It's kind of what you've said about traveling. It's like, when they meet you, it's not about, here's my business card or here's what I do. We do this here. We go to a barbecue, you meet somebody, and the first thing someone says is, so, what do you do? It has nothing to do, like, how many kids do you have? We don't really say that. We start with, what do you do for a living? Because we all want to know. In Norway, it's kind of the opposite of that. You meet someone for the first time and you're like, hey, what are some of the things you're into? They want to know who you are.

Darryl:
Do you play sports? Do you go to bridge club? Do you knit? Whatever it is, they want to know about you. And like, when they say the quality of life in Norway is the best in the world, and they're always number one in the world every year for quality of life, these, I think, are reasons why, is because they got their shit figured out.

René:
Yeah. And now that you verbalize that, you know, often I'll be sitting in a client meeting. Well, actually, I try to avoid saying, what do you do? What I'll ask the client now is, tell me more about yourself so we can get to know you, so we can figure out how we can best help you and your family. And almost 99% of the time, they start by explaining what they do for a living.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
Instead of saying, I'm Darryl Boulley, and I, you know, I have a wonderful family. And, you know, my wife's name is Erin. And be like, yeah, I'm in marketing. I own my own firm. It's called Hepburn Productions. And, yeah, here's my background. I'm a husband to Erin.

René:
And, you know, it comes secondary because it becomes our identity. Yeah.

Darryl:
Like, you are not your title. You're not your inbox. You're not your to do list, or the things people rely on you for. That's another thing. It doesn't have to be your job. You could be a caretaker. Like, I know people who take care of their elderly parents. And when you go to see and you're going to meet them, it's not like, hey, what's going on in life? Like, you know, hey, did you go play pickleball last week? It's so how's it been going taking care of your parents? That has become their identity.

René:
Or you ask them how they're doing and they go directly to.

Darryl:
Directly into that.

René:
Your story of caring for their parents? Yeah, it's a great topic, dude.

Darryl:
Hey, thanks.

René:
It's very deep.

Darryl:
I'm not just good looks, René. This is part of who I am. Yeah, but people are.... You're a whole, layered, complicated, beautiful human being, whether you're crushing deadlines or sitting quietly with yourself. And maybe the real flex isn't how much you do, but how well you know who you are when you're not doing all those things.

René:
Well, that's deep, man. You're like an onion, except you don't look like one and you don't smell like one.

Darryl:
But I make you cry.

René:
Yeah, but you make me cry. So many levels.

Darryl:
All right, this week, take a few minutes to be that version of you. The quiet one, the one underneath the Hustle. Because when the noise fades someday and the titles all fall away, that version of you is the one that truly matters.

René:
Deep thoughts with Darryl Boulley.

Darryl:
If today's episode made you take a pause, laugh, question something, or just feel a little more human, then hit the follow button on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're tuning in right now. And if you know something, somebody is stuck in the Hustle and could use a little reminder that they're more than their job, share this episode with them. Because you never know who needs to hear it.

René:
And I'm going to surprise you with a lifestyle topic one day.

Darryl:
I double dog dare you. Thanks for listening. We'll catch you next time.