Timing the Markets and Mistimed Marketing

Darryl:
Have you ever had that feeling in the pit of your stomach that something just does not feel right?

René:
Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about.

Darryl:
Like, I don't want to sound paranoid, but there's something happening in my daily life that I'm starting to wonder if my life is in danger a little bit.

René:
Okay, I think you have to elaborate.

Darryl:
Well, I know I've joked in the past about my wife on this podcast, and every time she hears it, she laughs, and I think she likes it, but. But I'm starting to think that her laugh might be a bit of a deception.

René:
She having an affair on you or something?

Darryl:
No. I'm starting to think she's trying to end my life through psychological warfare.

René:
That's called a relationship. You're in a healthy relationship.

Darryl:
No, no. Here's what's happening. Every single day, I use olive oil, like, twice a day, at least two meals a day. Olive oil is included. And it has sat in the same spot in the same cupboard for 8, 18 years, right on the left side, right at the front. So it's nice and easy to get to. It's the most used thing in the pantry.

René:
I even know where the olive oil is in your house.

Darryl:
Exactly. But lately, every day, when I go to the cupboard to grab the bottle, she's moved the oil to the back and then replaced it with something new. Or like, the kitchen sink. Like, I'll be doing the dishes. And I save that one pan for the end because it needs a little extra time to soak. And I turn around for two seconds and BAM! She drained the sink.

René:
I think those are signs of premenopause.

Darryl:
I think I'm in a game of domestic chess, but I'm playing checkers. Well, listen, if I go missing, ask her where the olive oil is, and if she twitches, call the police. This is Taming the Hustle...

René:
... or Something of the Sorts.

Darryl:
I've tried blaming the kids, trying to be a good husband. I'm like, kids do not move the olive oil. And she's like, I don't know why they move it. And the kids are like, we definitely did not move the olive oil.

René:
In a previous podcast, you told me to give you a warning of things to come because I'm a bit older than you. Here's one of them. It's not going away.

Darryl:
Something's going on, Rene. Something's going on.

René:
Just be patient. Take. Take deep breaths.

Darryl:
Exactly. So what's on the agenda today?

René:
I want to talk about successfully timing the market.

Darryl:
Oooo I like this.

René:
This comes up with clients and.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
Even people on the street. You're running to people at the grocery store. You're having conversation at a function.

Darryl:
Happens to me all the time.

René:
Oh, my God. Timing the market. Timing. You know, Ryan and I talk about this with clients all the time. Is to be successful at timing the markets, you have to be right twice.

Darryl:
Yeah. A hundred percent.

René:
You and I are married. We're never right.

Darryl:
No. God, I wish.

René:
Never.

Darryl:
I don't even know what the word means anymore.

René:
We've never heard. You're right. So how am I supposed to time the market? It's not possible. There's a whole bunch of luck. I mean, unless you're insider trading, then that's different. Right. It's also illegal. But let's be real.

René:
It happens in the real world all the time.

Darryl:
I see it on the news.

René:
If you're on the inside and you know there's going to be a big announcement and you want to get in before that upswing, that is something that is accomplishable. You have to be right twice to be able to successfully time the market. Because I often have clients who message me and be like, why didn't you move my money out of the markets before it tanked? I was like, because no one knew it was going to tank.

Darryl:
Yeah, exactly.

René:
Right. And then if you actually are successful on moving the money out before we see a correction, you then have to be accurate on when we've bottomed out.

Darryl:
Yeah, yeah.

René:
So let me dissect that a little bit. Right. So our philosophy is time in the markets rather than timing the markets.

Darryl:
Yes, I've heard you say this many times.

René:
You know, we're in it for the long game, and we're really good at taking the emotions out of the whole thing, which is also a big part of our success. So first thing, when is it that you decide that you're going to sell? So let me explain. Timing the market is if there's a market correction, the client, the consumer, or even a do it yourselfer is going to say, well, I'm going to try to get out at the peak and I'm going to sit on the sidelines in cash and I'm going to get back in at the bottom. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to miss out on all the losses and I'm going to jump in on all the opportunities at the downswing. In a perfect world, everyone would be billionaires or trillionaires if we could do this, let's be honest. And if you come across anyone that's a do it yourself or even a professional that says he can do that, I've heard guys in my industry that are, you know, brag at conferences and stuff that could do this. And I'm like, yeah, you're. You either got lucky or you're full of shit right now.

René:
So save it. You know, we. We have a really, really close relationship with a handful of portfolio managers in this industry and a couple of fund companies in particular. And one we really cherish, our relationship is Fidelity Investments. And, you know, some of their portfolio managers manage like $50 billion in assets. Right. Like no chump change. And, you know, some of them have as much as 50 analysts below them that are studying these companies day in and day out.

René:
Right. There's an enormous amount of resources. And to perfectly time the market with them even is not something that's possible. There's just too much risk involved.

Darryl:
Yeah, exactly.

René:
First is, the two pieces is at the peak of the market, there's the market volatility that is, you know, truly unpredictable. It's like, when do you pull out and what are the indicators and what are you looking for? Is it one company you're looking at trying to time, or is it a portfolio of funds? Are you going to move everything into cash? Are you going to move certain funds or certain companies into cash? When do you pull out? Like, let's look at this Trump shenanigans stuff that's gone on in the first quarter of this year.

Darryl:
You have not lost a single hair over that, I've noticed.

René:
Yes, because I'm wearing a ball cap to hide it. If I pull my hat off, I would have no hair. And the few that are left are white. No, it's fine. You know what? I've been doing this for more than two decades. Just another hiccup like usual. But anyway, the s and P500 dropped like 12 to 15% in a matter of days, essentially at the beginning of April. So you would have had to have known to get out of the markets at the end of March.

René:
Then you would have had to have known to get back into the markets within two weeks because we fully recovered.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
Or is this person that knows timing the markets on when to get out and when to get back in still sitting in cash, thinking there's going to be Armageddon in the coming weeks or months?

Darryl:
Yeah, exactly right.

René:
And then the other Thing is, the emotional factor, this is the one that really gets me the most. Let's say you have a do it yourselfer that's got a stock like, like GameStop, something that's really volatile, and they've made a pile of money with not a whole lot of rationale. While the greed factor kicks in. Darryl. Oh, is I don't want to sell because I've tripled, I've quadrupled my money. I don't want to get out. What if I can make 10 times? Right. It almost becomes a drug.

René:
Like a gambling addiction, where it's like, I don't want to miss out. It's the fomo, right?

Darryl:
Yeah. Yeah.

René:
Fear of missing out is I don't want to miss out on another 8% or 10% or 50% or whatever your expectations are.

Darryl:
Exactly.

René:
Then all of a sudden, the emotional attachment to that stock has caused you to hang on to it for too long. Then it corrects and it's too fucking late. Yeah, Right. So the emotional piece for the average Joe is a really important part of the equation, and it's very strong. I mean, emotions are strong when it comes to investing.

Darryl:
Yeah, exactly.

René:
And then on the downswing, dude, it's like you then have mix emotions. Like, all of the corrections that I've experienced since I started in the late 90s, is that the rebound days, like the big, biggest ones are those major upswings right at the bottom.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
Let's say like a dollar value, you sold at 10 bucks and it drops down to 7 bucks. Well, if you get back in as it starts to upswing, you might be getting back at eight or nine dollars, and you've missed that major upswing.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
Right. So you would have just been better off to stay in the markets in the first place.

Darryl:
Yeah, exactly. Patience is needed when you are dealing with this. And as we learn from our society, patience is very few and far between.

René:
Well, patience and accuracy. I mean, the greed factor in actually knowing the right indicators when it's time to get out, then when do you get back in? Yeah, we've observed this countless times. It's like you want to get back in at the bottom at six bucks, but by the time you have the balls to get back in because you see that there's some light at the end of the tunnel, you're back up to eight or nine bucks, and you missed the boat.

Darryl:
Yeah. Right.

René:
So you've created a ton of volatility and you've created risk with your assets with very little return. I Know, a handful of people that have timed the market successfully, and a lot of it was just pure luck. And they're going tell that story for the rest of their lives.

Darryl:
Exactly.

René:
Because, like, realistically, I've designed charts for clients before where it's like, okay, you've got a $10 value on a stock and it dips rapidly to $8, and you're like, holy fuck, I gotta sit on the sidelines until this volatility's over. Cause it's gonna drop more, but I'll get back in at a low. So then it drops to seven bucks or six bucks, and then it starts to drive back up again. And by the time you have the courage to get back in because you're now feeling things are stable again, the stock's back at $9.

Darryl:
Yeah. Yeah.

René:
So you sold it at 8 and you bought it at 9, thinking you sat on the sidelines only because it went from. From eight down to six, back up to nine.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
So you escaped the volatility, but you actually ended up with a dollar loss. Like, it makes no sense. People don't realize that.

Darryl:
Oh, I know.

René:
You just got to sit tight, man.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
If markets go down to nothing, okay, so one stock is one thing. Yes. Let's say you and I have a coffee company. You're drinking a cup of coffee.

Darryl:
I would like to own a coffee company. We should do that.

René:
In retirement that could be fun. And for some reason, you and I flop and that stock goes to zero, you could potentially lose everything. Right. Because it's one company. There's some risk there, and it's possible. But let's say you have a managed portfolio with like a thousand companies. If that portfolio manager and his 50 analysts don't have the smarts to get out and sell those thousand companies before they all go bankrupt.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
That likely means that there's some nuclear bombs that have been detonated. We're all fucked anyway.

Darryl:
Yeah, right, Exactly.

René:
It means we're dying.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
If there's World War 3, nuclear bombs are detonated, and the world is doomed because it's not possible, Right. To have a thousand companies go bankrupt at the same time. If you have faith in the people that you work with, and you have the right people in place and you're working with professionals and you have a good basket of goods, you've got good geographic diversification, you've got good diversification of different sectors of the economy. Right. So if health care takes a ship, you've got some technology. You know, you know the drill.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
You just weather the Storm. And there's going to be opportunity. Like, the portfolio managers are not just sitting there taking the day off. They're looking for opportunity with the underlying assets. But they're not just grabbing all of that money and sitting on the sidelines trying to time the market. So with market corrections comes opportunity. But trying to time the market like that for a correction, particularly a short one like we just experienced, it's insanity. And people just don't want to get it.

Darryl:
Yeah, I know. People who literally will sit and drink themselves into a coma at night because of the markets, because they've put their life savings into only a few things. And when the markets start to tank in their mind, they're like, exactly what we just talked about. I got to get out. I can't afford to lose all this money. And they take, pretty much their life savings out, and then they reinvested in something lower, and then it's a vicious cycle. And by the time they're ready to retire and use that money, they might have invested, you know, a couple hundred thousand dollars, and now they're down to 150.

Darryl:
And they're like, I don't understand. This makes no sense. And it's the panic that gets them there. And like you say, weather the storm. Don't just jump in and be like, I need to sell, I need to buy, I need to sell, I need to buy, I need to buy. Right.

René:
Well, you know what, that brings me to something that I want to comment on as well, too. Dude.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
Not only is this applicable at one stock level or at a portfolio level, but also at an advisory level. So I had a client who was a close friend that for the last 30 years, every time there would be a market correction and they wouldn't be happy with their advisor on how they dealt with the correction, which is a. They weren't trying to time the market, so they were doing the right thing. He would move his money out to another advisor when the markets dropped, and then he'd get back in. And then of course, the new advisor chooses a portfolio that has a good track record.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
Because he's trying to gain this person's business. And then as soon as the markets corrected and wasn't happy with that advisor's reaction to the market to another. So he spent his entire life in a lost position. He just kept losing money and just getting out when markets tanked and got back back in at a high. So he bought high and sold low. The opposite of what you're supposed to accomplish.

Darryl:
Oh, my goodness.

René:
So like you can really get caught in this whole friggin timing the market thing. And yeah, I don't know, man. It's the hardest thing to change in someone's mindset. It's incredible.

Darryl:
And I have to say, that story you just told, that's the guy who sits at the end of the bar who tells you how bad every advisor he ever worked with was and they didn't know what they were doing and he'll bash them.

René:
And I got screwed. Oh my God, I hear that all the time. Yeah, I got fucked over by my last.

Darryl:
Don't go to this advisor, he's horrible. Like I've said before on this podcast, do your research yourself. Don't listen to the guy at the bar, don't listen to the guy at work who is doing stupid shit like this. Do your own research about your own advisor.

René:
And to be completely honest with you, a few that I can think off the top of my head of clients where I wasn't happy with the long term performance of their portfolio and just kept reflecting back on the series of events and it was me being influenced by them to make decisions that they wanted to do based on their emotion.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
And you know, as much as I want to stick to my guns on what is right, at the end of the day, the client has the last word.

Darryl:
Right. Yeah.

René:
So if they're like, make changes now, go more conservative, pull out of the markets completely. The few times that I said, well, it's, it's your call.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
All of those are the ones that I'm disappointed in the long term returns.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
You have to stay in the markets. It's time in the market. It's not timing the markets.

Darryl:
Yes.

René:
And I heard something, it was funny because you mentioned that drinking part. It was, I need to make enough money with my investments so that I can afford to keep drinking so that I can stomach the volatility in my portfolio or something like that. I didn't get it just right there.

Darryl:
But that should be our next ad. Yeah.

René:
You catch my drift. The vicious circle. Turbulence, drinking. We should start something.

Darryl:
Love it.

René:
Oh God. Well, that's enough. You know what? I could have got into a bunch of stuff, stats there and stuff. But I was like, just the emotional part alone is just like, how do we help people change the mindset and realize that you have to take the emotion out of it and just let things unfold as they should because trying to time the market, I'm telling you, sometimes you get lucky. Sometimes it's a calculated guess. Sometimes it's insider trading, but it rarely works.

Darryl:
Amen. We'll be right back.

René:
Back from the break. Breaker, breaker, one nine. You got a copy? This is Red Fox on the run.

Darryl:
See, I worked in the film industry and we're always on walkie talkies. And I always say copy when somebody asks me something, just to confirm that I know it. Yeah, and I'll say that to you of my copy. And you always make fun of me like a breaker, breaker.

René:
I feel like a trucker. This is Red Fox on the run. Who would yours be? Hepburn?

Darryl:
No, Big White. We already established that.

René:
Big White. Oh, my God. This is Red Fox on the run. Big White, are you out there?

Darryl:
Just keep on trucking.

René:
What's your 1020? Big white.

Darryl:
Hey, listen, I want to talk about. I know you're listening. I get it. I said, hey, listen again.

René:
I'm tired of bringing that up. You've exhausted me.

Darryl:
I want to talk about time as well. But the wrong time.

René:
Okay?

Darryl:
And by that I mean I want to talk about marketing. The right message, but the wrong time. And why great marketing can still flop.

René:
Yep, a hundred percent.

Darryl:
I find this is one of the most frustrating parts of marketing. You've taken notes from this podcast, you've watched the TED talks, you've taken a master class. Hell, you've even hired a full out marketing agency. You've done everything right and you're still watching your campaign crash and burn. And it's so frustrating. And kind of like what you were talking about with timing the markets.

René:
You have to time your marketing.

Darryl:
You do have to time your marketing. And I've seen companies with killer visuals, slick copy, Their call to action should have been on a billboard for years. They feel like they're Don fucking Draper in Mad Men. They put out their campaign and then nothing. Nothing lands, no clicks, no sales. You just sit there refreshing the analytics like it owes you money. And people always ask, so what the hell happened?

René:
What did happen, Darryl?

Darryl:
Timing. That's what happened. Timing is what I call the underrated assassin of marketing. You can say all the right things, but if your audience is distracted, if they're broke, if they're busy, if they're binge watching Succession, your message isn't going to land.

René:
So are you telling me that we can't time the markets but we can time your marketing.

Darryl:
You got it.

René:
Holy, what an episode.

Darryl:
I know. I hope people are sitting down.

René:
I'm having a moment. It's awesome.

Darryl:
But like, I've seen small businesses launch their back to school campaign two weeks after school started.

René:
Oh, nice. There's a classic example.

Darryl:
And I've talked to these types of companies and they're like, oh, I figured I would get the wave after, so we're on our own. And it's like, so, okay, just let me get this straight. You decided to wait after everyone spent all their money so you could stand out and say, look at my expensive product now.

René:
Yeah. Here you go.

Darryl:
And big things, like your holiday promo went live the day Queen Elizabeth died.

René:
Yeah.

Darryl:
Right. It's not your fault. But also maybe check the fucking news once in a while.

René:
Yeah. Stop the post. Intercept.

Darryl:
Yeah. Your marketing isn't just about what you say. It's about when people are in the right headspace to hear it. Right.

René:
And when you say it.

Darryl:
Yeah. When we launch a big campaign, weeks leading up to it, we're watching the news, we're watching what's trending, we're watching what TV series are coming out and when on Netflix and Apple tv. It sounds so silly, but it's so important because like I said, I joked about Succession a minute ago. If we launch something the same day that Apple TV lets out Succession, people are more interested in that. They're not watching our ads.

René:
Right.

Darryl:
Remember when Kendall Jenner solved racism with Pepsi? Do you remember that ad back in 2017?

René:
No, I don't.

Darryl:
So it was an ad that was meant to be a feel good unity message, but Pepsi launched it smack in the middle of Black Lives Matter protests. During a global conversation about police brutality.

René:
Yes, yes.

Darryl:
And the optics was this rich, sexy white model handing a cop a Pepsi to diffuse the tension of racism. Like soda was the missing piece in centuries of systemic injustice.

René:
Oh, yeah, yeah, I remember now.

Darryl:
Pepsi had a budget. They had the production value, they had the star power. What they didn't have was the awareness. They misread the emotional temperature of the world and turned. We're all in this together. To a PR disaster. And the ad was pulled 24 hours. It only took 24 hours.

Darryl:
And it became a case study of what not to do.

René:
Wonder if I could still see that on the Internet somewhere.

Darryl:
Oh, for sure, it's on YouTube. But that's the thing. Right message, maybe wrong time. Absolutely wrong time.

René:
You got to read your crowd, man.

Darryl:
So I preached about having a calendar before and really you know, outlining your marketing and your plan. But don't let your calendar kill your common sense.

René:
Sometimes you have to pivot.

Darryl:
Exactly. Pivot's the best word for this. Like, we get it. You've planned the launch. It's on your content calendar. Your designer finally finished the ad after 47 revisions. But if something big shifts, if your industry takes a hit or the market changes or your audience suddenly isn't vibing anymore, you have to adjust. Like Rene, for your company.

Darryl:
We built video campaigns once. I don't know if you remember this. Around your wealth today while planning for tomorrow. So building that wealth and having all this money but still being able to enjoy it today. We had these videos of people on sailboats flying their own planes, opening a new business. And you remember why we held off on launching them?

René:
The pandemic?

Darryl:
No. It was a fucking recession.

René:
Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Darryl:
So then our efforts turned to calming emotions instead.

René:
Right.

Darryl:
Because nothing says bad timing like watching the markets drop and your financial plan or publicly saying, it's okay. Enjoy your wealth. Spend that money. Fuck me.

René:
Sailboats. Sailboats and motorcycles.

Darryl:
Yeah. Like, marketing shouldn't feel like a forced punchline at a funeral. Right? It's.

René:
It's all about timing.

Darryl:
Yeah. If the energy is off, pause and pivot like you said. Just because it's on your schedule, on that calendar doesn't mean it's on time.

René:
Makes me feel so. So refreshed to be able to time something, at least.

Darryl:
Exactly.

René:
Holy. I feel empowered.

Darryl:
Yeah. Well, here's the thing about marketing is, like, yeah, you feel empowered knowing this, but people who don't, and when they have something flop in their head, they're like, oh, it was horrible. That campaign was horrible. No, it was just premature. And sometimes the campaign wasn't wrong. And it wasn't a flop. It's just early. Or too late.

Darryl:
Yeah. It's kind of like in grade 10. You're a little premature on a lot of things. Right. But here's the thing about that, is don't trash it. Keep that stuff. Like with you, with that building wealth campaign we were doing. We didn't throw it out.

Darryl:
We use it at a different time. We reframed it. We relaunched it. The message might still be solid. It just needs a better moment.

René:
Yeah. Sometimes you just need to refresh it. For sure.

Darryl:
Yeah. And like, I know people always say timing. When we talk about timing, it's like, oh, that just ruins jokes. That's all timing's about. It's actually what makes people listen.

René:
Well, it's like you when you used to do some stand up, right?

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
You got to time your punchlines properly.

Darryl:
100%.

René:
If you don't execute that properly, you're going to be a flop and be booed off the stage.

Darryl:
Yeah. And if you've listened to anything I've said before, you're going to say, yes, I know, I know. But make timing part of your marketing strategy.

René:
Yes, sir.

Darryl:
Use seasons, culture, moods. Hell, use the weather. We've done this with you before and with another client. Like launch that luxury candle line when people are posting false selfies, not when they're sweating through their shirts in July. No one wants a fucking candle.

René:
Then when you're targeting northeastern Ontario in particular, you'll message me and say, what's the weather like today? Before I post this.

Darryl:
Exactly. And the reason for that is we've created like this great post and we had snowfall. It's so beautiful. It's so majestic. And we're promoting this like local event coming up and I'll message you, I said, what's the weather? And you're like, you know what, for the last two days it's been sunshine. Like snow's melting. Yeah, well, I can't put a fucking snowstorm out there now because it looks. It doesn't work.

Darryl:
Right.

René:
It's usually the opposite though. Let's be real.

Darryl:
Yeah, that's all I know. I was trying to be nice, trying.

René:
To make it sound is in the air. The grass is a bit green, the trees are budding. No, sorry, bud. Eight inches of snow. Postpone that post. We'll recycle it later.

Darryl:
But good timing doesn't mean go viral. People get that mixed up. It means being smart, being aware and knowing when people are ready to give a shit.

René:
Winning the game, man, it's like baseball. You don't. It's not necessarily a home run every time. You have to play the game strategically.

Darryl:
Exactly. And I've said it before, marketing isn't just about standing out. It's about showing up when it matters. Right.

René:
100%.

Darryl:
The right message, the wrong time, that's a misconnection. The right message at the right time, that's fucking magic.

René:
Amen.

Darryl:
So here's everyone's challenge. Go look at your last flop. We all have them. Then ask yourself, was it the message or was it bad timing? And if it was bad timing, then find a moment that fits. Because good marketing doesn't just show up loud, it shows up on time.

René:
And you can reuse the same material to re execute the right timing. It doesn't mean that you have to throw all that out. It comes at effort, and it comes at money, too. Right. At a cost, so.

Darryl:
Exactly. Yeah, that's the thing. You can recycle your content. It happens all the time. Big giant corporations do it all the time. Look at Coca Cola this past Christmas, they brought back the polar bears driving the Coke trucks.

René:
And the white girl handing the cop a soft drink.

Darryl:
Yeah, recycle that shit. That one's going to burn in history. All right, that's it for me.

René:
Good timing.

Darryl:
Good timing means knowing when to make an exit.

René:
Yeah, perfect timing. I was starting to feel like you were dragging on a little bit there.

Darryl:
We'll be right back.

René:
That was another good one. We're so meant to be. We're gonna beat Rogan at that award... fuck em.

Darryl:
We're gonna get the first Golden Globe.

René:
Joe Rogan, I am coming after you, motherfucker. I had to pull your title. It's like fake wrestling there. I start getting all aggressive and shit.

Darryl:
Oh yeah, brother, you're going down. All right, let's keep on our path today about time. Because I want to chat about something that I think is so relevant in our society these days, and that's timelines.

René:
Okay.

Darryl:
You know that invisible schedule we were all handed in our 20s that said you're supposed to pick a career by 25, buy a house by 30, get married, have kids, build that Pinterest, perfect life all before you hit 40.

René:
That is a lot of pressure on people, too.

Darryl:
Yeah, and most of the time you don't. And you end up feeling like you failed. Well, I'm here to tell you you're wrong. You didn't fail.

René:
Okay, Dr. Phil.

Darryl:
I know, I know.

René:
I love it. Please share your wisdom.

Darryl:
Well, that's the thing. A lot of us are out here chasing a schedule that we didn't write. And that came from our parents, our friends, movies. But real life doesn't care about timelines. And it sure as hell doesn't care about somebody else's.

René:
No, that's for sure.

Darryl:
Your friend might have three kids, a thriving dental practice. You might be 42 and just figuring out that you hate everything you studied in university.

René:
It's absolutely true, though. And it's not a sign of failure. That's what people need to stop having stuck in their heads.

Darryl:
Yeah, because those things don't say you're behind on stuff. It just makes you human.

René:
I still don't know what I want to do when I grow up.

Darryl:
Me neither. But you see this all the time with clients. You've talked about this before, that they're wanting to change a career at age 35 or 40 or 50.

René:
Oh, 100%.

Darryl:
Like, when is it too late to pivot on something that major in your life... Is the big question.

René:
Never.

Darryl:
That's what I think too. Yeah.

René:
I saw someone, they're like 71. They went back to university not because they needed a new career. It's because they had this craving for knowledge and they just wanted to go back to school and learn. And they had the money to pay for the tuition and that. And it was like the next adventure for them. Instead of traveling, they just went back to university to learn something new. I can't remember the topic even. And it stuck with me.

René:
It's like, wow, that is amazing. Right? If you continue to be curious and be adventurous.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
It's never too late for anything. Well, I mean physically, like if you can't have children anymore, you can't have children. Right.

Darryl:
You could adopt.

René:
But you can adopt.

Darryl:
Yeah, yeah. Steal a baby. I've seen that on Tick Tock.

René:
Yes, yes.

Darryl:
I'm just kidding. Please do not steal babies. Do not say I encouraged you.

René:
Don't even steal Frenchies. That went viral too.

Darryl:
Yeah, it was all Lady Gaga's fault that your dog is priority.

René:
But you're right though. I mean, I've seen people have children in their 60s where the old guy meets a younger woman and they want to start a family.

Darryl:
Personally, there's a couple of things I couldn't do and pivot on the first. Like, I'm in my mid-40s now and the idea. I love little kids. They're very cute, they're a lot of fun, but hell no.

René:
Yes.

Darryl:
That is a hard no.

René:
Been there, done that, had a vasectomy.

Darryl:
It doesn't matter what I want in life or would love to do differently. Going back to school, I. I think I'd rather be kidnapped and tortured than sit in a classroom ever again.

René:
There you go. I think I could do post secondary where you would. It's just a next level learning and everyone's got the same mindset, right?

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
But the idea of going back to high school with a bunch of hooligans. I'm talking about you, by the way.

Darryl:
You're like, would you just shut up and let the teacher teach the fucking class. But here's the thing. It's not too late to... and you said this word before, to pivot. So I think like, career change at 40. Fuck, do it. Starting over in a new city. Pack those boxes.

Darryl:
Having your first kid at 45. People, like we said, are doing it. There is no prize for fastest to burn out.

René:
This has not been clearer to me than in the last couple of years. For some reason. I don't know if it's because I've guided some of my clients through some really life changing decisions that they've not regretted and really changed their lives for the better. Maybe I'm an coming to terms with my own mortality. You know, when you're in your 20s and 30s, you're kind of immortal. You're going a thousand miles an hour. You know, I'm seeing a lot of my clients pass away. I'm seeing my clients retire.

René:
I'm seeing clients with ailments that they, you know, weren't expecting. You're dealing with cancer and heart issues and stuff. I love what I do and I love the people that I work with and the relationships I have. Like, I feel like I've got a true purpose. Like, so. So for me, work isn't really work.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
But if I felt like work was just work, like a burden, I could see myself getting rid of everything and living a life of minimalism in Mexico. Right. Like, and people do it.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
People make changes. And you're right, we shouldn't follow society's calendar and timelines. On that. I agree with you. I'm glad you brought that up. That's a fun one.

Darryl:
I've joked about that before. I'm selling everything. I'm gonna rent surfboards on a beach by the ocean. And I know people who have done that, that I think the fact that you're doing something later often means you're probably going to do it better. You have more experience, more emotional intelligence, and maybe even a little savings or therapy under your belt, knowing that it's not too late. And I go back to this word, it's strategic.

René:
I always love the theory, and I know it's impossible because how would you do it of kind of switching life backwards and retiring right now and going back to work when you start running out of steam.

Darryl:
Oh, I know, I thought about that. Yeah.

René:
So imagine being retired until you're 50 so that you can travel, you can see the world, you can do all the fun that you want to do. And then at 50, you're like, hey, it, I gotta pay for this now.

Darryl:
I know.

René:
So you start to run low on steam. You become more of a homebody because you've been there, you've done that, and now all of a sudden you're just gonna buckle down and pay for all the. You've done the last.

Darryl:
Yeah. Because there's no better time to be at work than when you're an old man and you can say whatever the fuck you want.

René:
Yes.

Darryl:
Right.

René:
Yeah. And make all of your colleagues lives miserable.

Darryl:
Imagine just a bunch of old people in the office just bitching about everything. Oh, my.

René:
And talking about all the shit they did when they were retired.

Darryl:
Exactly.

René:
I love it. I love the concept. Not possible. I love it.

Darryl:
But let's be real for a minute because some things do get harder as you get older. Like, I know my knees don't bounce back as well as they used to. You know, changing careers might mean a pay cut. Dating in your 40s. My wife doesn't let me do it. But I hear you meet a lot of people who are looking for nothing serious.

René:
Yeah.

Darryl:
Yes. Certainly doors might be harder to open, but that doesn't mean they're locked. It just means you need a different key, I think.

René:
Yeah. A little bit of strength.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
Right. Courage, a little bit of balls and a little sense of adventure.

Darryl:
Exactly. Yeah. And at the end of the day, I believe these timelines are strictly just made up. Some people peak at 25, while others find their purpose at 47. You don't need to be on anybody's schedule but your own.

René:
You still have to be a contributor to society, though.

Darryl:
Yes.

René:
For people to kind of mooch off the system for me, is problematic.

Darryl:
Yes, agreed.

René:
But changing careers, you know, like, let's look at even smaller things in regards to, you know, homeownership or your first vehicle and stuff. Stuff like. Yeah, none of that really matters.

Darryl:
No.

René:
If you're renting and you're happy, who cares?

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
You know, there's this big emphasis on, you know, having equity in your home and making sure you're not pissing money away into rent. We've talked about all these subjects. This kind of brings everything together. We talk about all the time. There's nothing set in stone there. It's just like roll with it and. And have a plan and let life unfold as it should.

Darryl:
Yeah, I know. I love my little challenges here, so I'm going to challenge everybody, I guess.

René:
Again, I'm out of challenges.

Darryl:
But stop measuring your life by milestones. And start measuring it by meaning if something's calling you, a career, a relationship, a total reinvention, figure out how to go after it. Late is better than never. And honestly, being late with a little wisdom is better than early with no clue.

René:
Yeah. 100. I try to preach that to my kids, too. That's well said, Darryl. You're very eloquent. But trying to steal those values in your children, you know, it's not easy.

Darryl:
No.

René:
You know, because they're wanting to get on with their lives and stuff, too, but, you know, the pressure of starting a family and the pressures of settling down, like. And it's also not like it once was. Like, you know, you're going back a hundred years ago. Women weren't in the workplace. They needed someone to support them. They got married at, like, 14 years old. They started a family right away.

Darryl:
People with jobs had the same job until they retired.

René:
Yeah. For 30 or 40 years. And then the average life expectancy was like, 67. They died at 67. 69. It was just. That's what you did. Right.

René:
But life is different now. Now. But we're still kind of stuck on the same timelines, which is.

Darryl:
Exactly. I am still on track to die about 67. 69, though.

René:
Yeah. If that.

Darryl:
If that. Let's. I got my fingers crossed.

René:
You know what? I am going to organize the best 65th birthday for you, and it's going to be your funeral at the same time. And it'll be like, okay, we're going to do Darryl's funeral because he doesn't have a lot of time left. Rather than spend money twice on two events, let's just do it all at once. And then the pressure's off.

Darryl:
Exactly.

René:
So if he dies next year and, you know, two years, we're good.

Darryl:
And the way my body aches now, I think if I do make it to 65, let's just have a hot tub part.

René:
Yeah, yeah. You're going to want to be dead at 65.

Darryl:
Exactly.

René:
See, there's a perfect example of timelines that don't work.

Darryl:
Exactly. All right, that's it for us today. Hopefully this episode made you think, laugh, and maybe question a few things, if you haven't already. Follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever your listen to this podcast right now and hit us up on Instagram so you don't miss a thing. And. And we'll see you next time.

René:
Ciao.